What do i do?

Originally Posted by Vizon I've been through this before, I know how it works. They offer no support to intangible items.

It wont let me reply to the initial dispute though?

Moved to business and legal help.

Originally Posted by Craddock It wont let me reply to the initial dispute though?

I called.

Paypals policy doesn't cover electronic goods...simply because theres no way to tell what has or hasn't been sent. They freeze the necessary funds your account when its in a dispute, they legally can't take out money without properly notifying you & hearing your side of the story.

Even when the dispute is closed...this has happened to me before and I called and got the 'dispute resolution', explained the situation, and they instructed me to send an appeal (with case ID in the subject) to appeal@paypal.com. Once you send it, wait a few hours, call and have the person attach it to your claim (if you dont call, it can take a week or more). Once this is done, paypal looks over whats been done again and decides. Obviously coming with dates, times etc. when things were done (via some sorta' log) helps tremendously.

"I did the XHTML/CSS and i got someone to do the Wordpress for $60"

Theres a crime in itself. Paid $60 and it wasn't even done well.

As far as he goes, basically nothing - paypal is your enemy when you're in the right, and your best friend when your ripping people off. Its sad that it happened, however there is nothing you can do about it.... nicely.

If you want to be a *****, go into his WP admin and make yourself an account. Chances are he won't find it. Then once his site gets more hits, trash it with "SCAMMER" everywhere - explain how he took it without paying. Depending on the site, he may well lose more than $130 worth of business. Not that unethical, but neither is taking is taking work without paying for it.

Originally Posted by rochow If you want to be a *****, go into his WP admin and make yourself an account. Chances are he won't find it. Then once his site gets more hits, trash it with "SCAMMER" everywhere - explain how he took it without paying. Depending on the site, he may well lose more than $130 worth of business. Not that unethical, but neither is taking is taking work without paying for it - burn that sucker.

Because that's entirely mature, just for that quote alone I will be choosing to never work with you or recommend you to anyone.
That's the worst response I've seen for resolving a business matter.

Originally Posted by Jeff Andersen Because that's entirely mature, just for that quote alone I will be choosing to never work with you or recommend you to anyone. That's the worst response I've seen for resolving a business matter.

You need to read a bit more then. I've read PHP coders that code in backdoors into the scripts so if the client doesn't pay they take over the whole server and wipe the lot (sites, emails - all of it) Deleting what shouldn't be theres in the first place is 1 thing (he stole the WP, Craddock has every right to take that theme off him) but touching stuff that has nothing to do with it is another.

Did I not say "however there is nothing you can do about it nicely"?

I've had people take my work and not pay, and I've done nothing about it but post on the forums they are active at and leave a -iTrader. Sinking to their level doesn't solve anything. And lets face it, there is so much scamming going on its impossible for everyone to end up happy.

At the end of the day, there's nothing you do (especially if they dont send payment at all - at least you have a bit of a chance because they sent it then opened a dispute)

Looking at it the other way, we've only heard 1 side of the story. Maybe it was late, had errors, and the guy got fed up and wanted his money back as he didn't feel he got what he paid for?

What would recommend then - sit back and let him tell all his friends "hey use this guy, you can take his work and get it free!"? That doesn't get anywhere at all. And don't kid yourself - that happens - I know, I've had it happen to me before.

One, You flip flop like a fish out of water.

Two, [and I am going to sound like your mother here] Just because someone has done it or is doing it, doesn't make it ethical or right. Unless you'd like to join me for a brisk jump off a bridge?

Three, You get bit once and learn from mistakes [down payments, escrowe, or even request a physical copy (a la CD) to prevent digital goods charge backs].

Four, I really don't know where your huge rant came from.. I merely responded to your thoughts of sabotaging his site (which in no way were references to what other people have done they're your suggestions). And I am not kidding myself, I know this happens and nearly 90% of people in the world are guilty of this [see: downloading copyrighted content ie. Music/Videos]

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand as I'm just going to take these remarks and put them aside as a mental note for future projects.

Craddock, simply learn from your mistakes here (take some suggestions perhaps from my number 3 above.) Though, should you choose to quit freelancing that's a shame.. you're passing up some decent opportunities.

Regards,
Jeff

1) What?
2) I know that, and I agree - its still unethical no matter what happened/who did what
3) Its still not foolproof, even if they pay upfront they can then become the victim (not get the work they were promised) so its still not a win-win situation
4) You had a go at my "worst response you've ever seen." I do not see taking his site down as unethical, Craddock however does own the theme as it was never paid for, so he has every right to take it back (which if he emailed is impossible)

You can't really learn from your mistakes as you didn't really make any. Sometimes this stuff happens. The best you can do is ensure you do the best job, on-time, and fix any problems ASAP. If you know you did a good job then thats there is nothing else you can do.

I wouldn't quit freelancing from just this. Most people you deal with are fine, they'll pay you and not make a big deal if there are any errors (we're only human after all) Its like any industry, even working for someone else you have clients or customers that don't work out well.