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Quotes or hourly rates? Your pricing, how do you value your time?

Thread title: Quotes or hourly rates? Your pricing, how do you value your time?
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03-25-2006, 12:35 AM
#11
Julian is offline Julian
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Valid responses guys, thanks!

All pricing is relative to where you are at in your personal circumstances, I am just trying to bring more awareness to pricing, is all

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03-25-2006, 01:59 AM
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  Old  Example sites

Hello,

Thanks for the post. 16k is a high price for a 5-page site, but that depends on what you do. Spending 4 weeks on it @ 40hour/week, then yeh, it should cost that much.

$100/hour is at the higher end, but not out of the range.

I might have missed it, but did you post any example sites that you charged $16k for? I can understand if you don't post any, but it would help put things into perspective.

If you can't post any examples, how about some sites that you DID NOT do but are representative?

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03-25-2006, 02:45 AM
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derek lapp is offline derek lapp
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Originally Posted by VIZ
I can't say that people "underprice" when they make a template and then try to sell it for $200, it's rarely going to happen. If no-one buys then you have "wasted" time, it's much better for you (money wise and portfolio wise) to sell work, even if it is underprice.
i can say it's underpriced. the only way a design is justified @ $200 is if you spent less than 5 hours on it, which is rediclous when looked at from an industry perspective.

designing ins't just making something look "pretty". a design is a method in which a message is conveyed to an audience - even in traditioanal and personal expression (even random 3d renders convey some form of message though it's usually aaccidental). granted no one wants to say "we're ugly" to their audience, so looking good is part of deisng, but it's far from the core of it. design is imagery and imagery has meaning. it takes more than 4 hours to create imagery, analysize it from different perspecties and compare all connottions, then revamp to eliminate any unwated possabilities and strengthen your goal as much as possible. the choice between red & black as a colour scheme over blue and orange can have HUGE effects on the final outcome.

if you just slap something together in an afternoon and try and pawn it off as an empty shell, it lacks meaning and doesn't do anyone any service. it now has no interpretation and revising applied to it, and it has no meaning because it has to be left as vauge as possible. be it for print or web doesn't say anything to an audience. and like you said, you've justed wasted your own time.

this is why i hate templates: they don't serve the customer, whoever they may be, much good unless they the skills to edit what they buy - which is rare because usually technical skills go hand in hand with creative skills (not evenly) so there's not much sense in buying in the first place, and it also wastes the artists time.

personally it's better to practice making specific designs (like for a dentist) and do nothing with them and just chalk your time up as practice. in the long run it will have really honed your skills allowing you to make the $16k calibre grade which will do a lot more for you than a hand full of $100 cheap ones when you were young.

if you want to try and make soe money off your efforts, do artwork instead of design (not in pace of my last suggestion, along side it). you'll still learn the technical skills (how to use the brush for example), and it's personal expression and will thus have a message and can be sold as artwork because someone else most likely agrees with your message and also appreciates the aesthetics of the work = sold. combined with the design practice you have a much better chance of making the grade for the big $$ we sites.

route a (selling cheap no name templates) vs route b (practice designing for specific things and hone communication skills): route b clearly offers a much more propserous future: anyone can make the no anme templates, look how many are doing it already. only a chunk of people have the skills to handle the big budget projects, that's what makes them so rare. so in the long run, yes, even though to a teenager $2000-3000 (even just $3000 could be really useful to me) over 4 years might seem like 100% profit, it's greatly unersold when compared to what could be a 5 figure deal.

if it's what you want to do, go for it. there's just no way i can be convinced that anything under at least $1000 is fair pricing for any market.

sorry if i hijacked your thread julian, but i felt the point really had to be made.


as for this whole quote vs hourly rate thing... using the definition of the word quote, "To state (a price) for securities, goods, or services." if i give someone a ballpark figure of $6000, they can quote me on estimating that price, doesn't make the bill $6000 in stone. i can give a project quote based on hourly estimates, but the actual invoice may be different from my estimate.

are you saying fixed pricing is better than hourly?

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03-25-2006, 06:00 AM
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Derek, hourly pricing and quoting are dependant on the client and the project. I know quotes are not set in stone, here in New Zealand a quote is allowed to have a maximum over-run of 10%, anything over that is at the developers own cost.

Originally Posted by m23
Hello,

Thanks for the post. 16k is a high price for a 5-page site, but that depends on what you do. Spending 4 weeks on it @ 40hour/week, then yeh, it should cost that much.

$100/hour is at the higher end, but not out of the range.
16k is not at the high end, check this thread out for an example:
125k for this!

Also $100/hour is not at the high end, it is average for my region, and please remember I am from New Zealand. $100 of our dollars is worth $60.82 US dollars or 35.03 British Pounds.

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03-25-2006, 06:06 AM
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derek lapp is offline derek lapp
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i know some who charge $250/hour for creative services.

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03-25-2006, 06:32 AM
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Julian is offline Julian
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I know a few who are higher than that Derek

They are in the realm of consultants though, and don't really do the groundwork design anymore.

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03-25-2006, 09:11 PM
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Nice thread Julian,

I currently use both hourly rates and quotes, depending on the client. A lot of time, programming work will be hourly, as anything can happen, but when I'm working with design, a lot of times it will be quoted. Programming rates can go anywhere from $35-$100/hour, while I've had ecommerce sites go for as much as $3k-$5k. It all depends on the client, as you said, and the complexity of the site. But it is important not to undersell yourself, and your time. The client is paying good money for a professional service, and If you can prove to them your services are worth their time and money, it should definetly be worth yours.

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03-25-2006, 09:40 PM
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Good comments SoReal. Everything depends on the client and your situation.

I see your top rates are well above mine, good stuff! and keep generating those great leads!

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03-26-2006, 02:26 AM
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  Old

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Quality work deserves quality pay, and as you gain experience, you gain that better quality pay.

Remember to be realistic when you are giving a client a price quote. You're not trying to rip off the client, your simply trying to get your money's worth, as is the client. I've made 5 page sites for under $500 before, and when they get more complicated (backend systems, forum customization, flash, etc), the price goes, up, because your taking more time, and more effort than a typical site design. It's often a good idea to have base prices for certain services you offer, and as new work comes in, build off that base price, and estimate how much longer these services will take. Multiply the time by your desired hourly rate, and you can come up with a pretty good estimate for your quote.

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03-26-2006, 08:19 PM
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Great post Julian. I strongly agree that you should value your time and not under-sell your services.
It's funny how if you charge too little, some people may look at your services as being under-par, even though your intention may have been to offer more affordable or cheaper rates than competitors.
I guess the key is to find the right balance between charging too little and charging too much.

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