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First steps on the road.

Thread title: First steps on the road.
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07-13-2006, 07:28 PM
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alexandria2000 is offline alexandria2000
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  Old  First steps on the road.


Hello, this is my first topic in your great forum; I follow up your forum and I have learned lot of things from you, especially from Julian.

OK, my question is:

How can i manage a deal with clients through the internet, which comes first: money or design?
Especially that I prefer to deal directly with the client, not through sites or freelance auctions (with all my respect to these websites).

How can you persuade the client that he must pay first before receiving any thing?

I believe that it is more comfortable for both (client and designer) when they make the deal face to face.

However, online, I think that it is a little bit different.

When I receive an order from my client, usually , he pays a deposit, then a percentage before every stage until he receives the complete design.

There is a contract (thanks to Julian) and invoices, and this does not happen online.

I am taking now my first steps - as I mentioned in the topic's title – to a new career as a freelancer designer and I hope that you give me your advice as you do always .

Thank you.

07-13-2006, 07:52 PM
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dchelix is offline dchelix
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What I do is just request maybe %10 at start up, then after you show them maybe 4-5 previews of the site, then you can request 40%..and then when your ready to deliver the site, you request the rest of the payment.

If they don't agree to paying upfront, you have to tell them how its going to be and that will be the only way you do business. Just like putting a down payment on a car, they won't let you drive off without paying the down payment.

07-14-2006, 08:32 AM
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Julian is offline Julian
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I base my payment structure on 33% deposit, 33% on concept approval and a final 34% on completion of the project.

This way I get paid for all the initial work I do for clients if they decide to cancel the project at any stage. I also refund portions of deposits if I have not completed sufficient work to warant keeping the whole deposit.

Now, the simple way to let clients know you won't work without a deposit is to say something like this:

"The payment structure is as follows: 33% deposit, this is required before I begin work and must accompany a signed contract; 33% payment when you approve a concept and a final 34% at project completion"

If clients do not like the idea of paying a deposit let them know it is fully refundable, if the project is cancelled, and no work has been done up to the date of cancellation. Let them know that this is simply your payment structure and protects you for work done. Ask them if they would be prepared to put 5 - 6 hours into needs analysis meetings/research and building their quote for free, then come up with several concepts for presentation for free (possibly taking 2 - 3 weeks, or more)?

It is not a matter of persuading your client, it is a matter of explaining to your client the professional requirements of dealing with you.

07-14-2006, 03:25 PM
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alexandria2000 is offline alexandria2000
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Thank you very much dchelix , I do appreciate your advice , Thank you Julian , you are really an all round nice guy.

Your advices are 100% correct, but as I said in my first topic it will be more comfortable for both– designer and client – to make the deal face to face.

What I am asking about is how can I arrange the deal if it is online (through my web site).

Let us imagine that you visited my website and you saw my portfolio, then you sent to me an e-mail asking me to design a website for you.

I sent to you that the website will cost 100 $ and you must pay 20 $ before starting the work.

Will you (as a client) accept to pay 20 $ to someone before even seeing anything done? Moreover, to someone you don't know any thing about him, just an e-mail , a website and the Bank account that you will use it to send the money ?

That is why I am asking about ; how can you persuade the client that he must pay first before receiving any thing?

Please forgive my bad English, and I hope that my question is much more clear now .

Thank you .

07-14-2006, 09:51 PM
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Bas is offline Bas
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  Old

Originally Posted by alexandria2000
Will you (as a client) accept to pay 20 $ to someone before even seeing anything done? Moreover, to someone you don't know any thing about him, just an e-mail , a website and the Bank account that you will use it to send the money ?

That is why I am asking about ; how can you persuade the client that he must pay first before receiving any thing?
Hello Alexandria,

It would be smart to have an online portfolio website where you show all your previous work.
Show this previous work to your client before you start the project, usually clients ask for your work or they hire you because they like your work.

If your client refuses to pay before starting a project, you're probably not dealing with the right person.

07-15-2006, 02:28 AM
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Dante is offline Dante
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One thing to keep in mind is that if someone found you online, and is asking about your services online, they're at least considering entering into a business relationship with you online already...So you probably don't have as much convincing to do as you might think, though I totally understand why you're concerned about this.

Any way you do it, whether face to face or online, both the designer and customer are taking a leap of faith when they agree to deal with eachother. Not designing related, but look at eBay...there are millions of people every week sending money to merchants in good faith that they'll get what they bought. People are willing to take that leap.

Your clients can be convinced to have faith in you if you follow the good advice here as it all helps. The portfolio which shows not only what you can do, but what you've done. References are good. The contract Julian uses demonstrates professionalism all by itself, and that too will help convince a customer to go with you.

And Bas and dchelix are totally right as well regarding customers. If they're not willing to put down a deposit, you probably don't want to deal with them. Business relationships work both ways. The customer has to be professional too.

07-15-2006, 06:17 AM
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Andrew R is offline Andrew R
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You can go Julians route which is a good way to go to protect yourself from work for nothing, or possibly use an Escrow service such as escrow.com and have them pay the service fees? Just an opinion. :P

07-15-2006, 06:22 AM
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Julian is offline Julian
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True Dante, both parties are actually taking a risk at the beginning.
1. The client might not pay the money at the end of the project. Or...
2. The designer might not complete the job and keep the deposit.

This is a risk for both parties, but a manageable risk, especially with a signed contract.

It is up to your potential clients if they are willing to take a risk with you Alexandria. You can make it easier on your clients by building credibility with a good portfolio, honest copy, decent contracts, professionalism and solid references. You will have to show professional credibility in every aspect of your online business.
Originally Posted by Bas
If your client refuses to pay before starting a project, you're probably not dealing with the right person."
Originally Posted by Dante
If they're not willing to put down a deposit, you probably don't want to deal with them. Business relationships work both ways. The customer has to be professional too.
Good comments guys!

07-17-2006, 08:40 AM
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alexandria2000 is offline alexandria2000
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Thank you very much Bas , Dante , AndrewR and Julian

Originally Posted by Bas
It would be smart to have an online portfolio website where you show all your previous work.
I am working now on my portfolio and it will be online soon .
Originally Posted by Dante
if someone found you online, and is asking about your services online, they're at least considering entering into a business relationship with you online already...
I think that you summerized the whole proccess in this brilliant sentence , Bravo .
Originally Posted by AndrewR
use an Escrow service such as escrow.com and have them pay the service fees?
I will visit this website to see if it could help or not , thank you for your opinion .
Originally Posted by Julian
This is a risk for both parties, but a manageable risk, especially with a signed contract.
Is it neccessary to sign a contract for an online deal ?

Thank you very much .

07-17-2006, 09:10 AM
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Julian is offline Julian
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A signed contract is very important for any kind of business dealings. If you need the signed contract fast, you can fax it, if speed is not a problem you can mail it.

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