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Are dreamweaver and frontpage really that bad?

Thread title: Are dreamweaver and frontpage really that bad?
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02-11-2005, 12:15 PM
#21
kiswa is offline kiswa
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Originally Posted by n0vi
My teacher just said that when they're doing Webdesign in IT class, she's gonna to let me use Dreamweaver 'cause i should learn it. So I'm gonna be learning it soon. Maybe I'll get to love it as much as some of you here do.
See, that's the problem.... Why are teachers of Webdesign classes in actual schools telling their students to use Dreamweaver and Frontpage and crap like that (I had a class in college that involved Frontpage, I refused to use it)? When someone is learning on their own, I cuold understand using programs like that to help with getting familiar with the tags and whatnot. But someone who is in a class, and theoretically has decent instruction should be learning how to make sites with Notepad (or a similar text editor).

I learned how to make websites by going to websites and clicking on View > Source. Then I tried doing what they did and figuring out why things worked certain ways. I learned so much more by doing that than I ever could have by using WYSIWYG editors.

02-13-2005, 12:39 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by kiswa
See, that's the problem.... Why are teachers of Webdesign classes in actual schools telling their students to use Dreamweaver and Frontpage and crap like that (I had a class in college that involved Frontpage, I refused to use it)? When someone is learning on their own, I cuold understand using programs like that to help with getting familiar with the tags and whatnot. But someone who is in a class, and theoretically has decent instruction should be learning how to make sites with Notepad (or a similar text editor).

I learned how to make websites by going to websites and clicking on View > Source. Then I tried doing what they did and figuring out why things worked certain ways. I learned so much more by doing that than I ever could have by using WYSIWYG editors.
The thing is, its not a webdesign class.
IT's the I.C.T GCSE over here in Britian in my school in Wales... so webdesign is a little part of it and well most, well actually all of the people in my school probably apart from me and another 1, but im like 90% sure its just me has had any experiance with webdesigning or coding etc. so no one know's nothing of it. My teacher know's that ive had experiance with it so she said i should use dreamweaver instead of being limited in frontpage.

Also, when i first ever started with websites i learnt HTML which is a distant memory now but everything i did back then i made in notepad and the book i had was excellent at explaining things and i could make simple websites with background colours, patterns, text and pictures, then i moved onto photoshop and it went from there



Originally Posted by derek.l
yeah, why do extra work when you can get paid the same for not bothering?
Please Explain fully
I'm not getting paid for anything at the moment?

02-13-2005, 04:55 PM
#23
Travis is offline Travis
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I also use EditPlus 2. It's basically an enhanced text editor. As Kiswa said all the code is coloured and it also shows the line numbers down the side. It's a really good tool for any web development type stuff, though I wouldn't recommend it for other programming.

I think frontpage is a pretty terrible WYSIWYG in my opinion. There really is nothing I like about the program or the way in which you construct webpages with it. I don't remember a whole lot about it but I just remember the create web and shared borders and all of the options you have in the WYSIWYG editor that I just didn't like. Using it to code as a plain text editor maybe ok but I would still suggest something cheaper and better like EditPlus 2 for that.

I used to be quite against using dreamweaver up until I did some work experience at a local web programming firm. They made me learn dreamweaver because they said it was much faster and easier to make small adjustments to the code then code it all. I found it a good and was considering purchasing it after that but I never did. Perhaps one day I might. It would be interesting to here how good dreamweaver is for xhtml and css tableless layouts. The main reason I haven't actually went out and got dreamweaver is it hasn't had great support for this but I havent used it for a long time and I am sure that has improved. I would have to say Dreamweaver is the best WYSIWYG editor and the only WYSIWYG editor I would use.

That being said I don't like working with php in dreamweaver so I think I will stick to EditPlus 2.

02-20-2005, 05:59 PM
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i use dreamweaver since i am not a advance coder in html, it helps me out a lot better than notepad,i have frontpage but its not my style of a coder for html

03-04-2005, 10:19 PM
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Lord Kalthorn is offline Lord Kalthorn
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I use Visual Studio. It isn't a great Graphical Coder, certainly not as good as Frontpage, its better than Dreamweaver I suppose but that's not saying much. What it is great at is the tools, and especially the Intellisense. If you like hand-coded Code; Visual Studio is brilliant for it. Make Proxies, make all manor of files and do any ASP.NET Page with ease. Or indeed plain XHTML.Built in IIS for testing, Frontpage Extensions for loading Sites off the Internet and everything. Its a great site ubilding for Hand-Coded Sites. Which, as we all know, are sort after.

03-12-2005, 02:19 PM
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From my experience my HTML pages were 3 times larger after FP, and 2 times larger after DreamWeaver. So I prefer to code from the scratch. But if you a starter - I would say - DreamWeaver, not FP.

03-12-2005, 02:28 PM
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I use DW to add CSS code to the top of the page, since its 10x quick to color/define styles etc through the page properties window that typing each individual code. Also being a nub to good html coding I just use PS out-putted html pages and modify them to what I need. Most of the time they work perfectly fine so i'm not botherd.

03-12-2005, 04:42 PM
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derek lapp is offline derek lapp
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Originally Posted by n0vi
Please Explain fully
I'm not getting paid for anything at the moment?
you don't but the teacher does. html is a very very simple thing to learn and teach - being self taught is a little challenge for someone with absolutely no coding experience, but if someone who knows what they're doing treis to teach you, it's about 9 times easier.

my college is trying to teach my class html and it's painful to sit through it because it's soo poorly taught - they're just being damn lazy. they tried teaching tables - something that maybe took me a week to get down when i taught myself about 5 years ago - and of course no one realy understood what he had said, and in about 20 minutes i explained to them what took me 2 weeks; because i knew how it worked so i was able to explain it in a way specific to them that they'd really understand. it was said in Road Trip and it's been true to this point - "i can teach japanese to a monkey in 52 hours they key is just finding a way to relate".

you're teacher could easily explain detailed html to you and you could easily understand what's going on, but it's much easier to just say "use dreamweaver and figure it out on your own". she'll get paid either way. it's exactly what my prof is doing and it pisses me right off.

Originally Posted by lord katharn
t isn't a great Graphical Coder, certainly not as good as Frontpage, its better than Dreamweaver I suppose but that's not saying much.
i know you're a mircosoft boy, but seriously, FrontPage is @ the very bottom of wysiwyg editors. it might be a tie with geocities page builder, but i haven't seen geocities in a while, maybe they got better,

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