Please share your opinions.

Okay, well, this is an issue that should be settled over an instant messenger - though apparently someone wanted it otherwise.

As many of you know, I posted a topic called "xhtml/css coders" the other day. I was looking to hire someone for around $25 to basically teach me how to code a very simple layout I created for this purpose.

VIZ, an old friend, offers me a 'session' to teach me how. I accept. Here's how it started:

[10:57:08 AM] Andy - VI5 says: can we agree I was chosen for the 1 hour help? [10:57:14 AM] Julek says: Yes.

When he said "help", I thought he meant it - so I agreed.
So from there on, he starts rambling on setting up a div and container ID, which he explained pretty well.

About 10 minutes into all of this, he starts pasting snippets of code for me to paste into my document. I ask for him to explain it, but it turns out the code is wrong and is messed up in all browsers. I ask to fix it, he pastes me another piece of code, then another, and another. Finally, after 15 minutes of correcting code, he gets it right. Fifteen minutes ladies and gentelmen, that is how much time it took him to fix an error.

Then the entire conversation pretty much follows the same path.

After one hour of pointless rambling and pasting error-full code, he says:

It's been over an hour now, do you want me to finish it off for an extra $10 and then explain it for another $5?

The entire purpose of hiring him was to LEARN something. I haven't learned anything, and if I was asked to re-create this for the life of my family I could not even have started.

Do you think its correct for me to refuse to pay him?
I offered him the payment only if he goes back and explains, so that I know what he did, the right code... He refused.

So, I refuse to pay. As I said before, my purpose in hiring him was to learn something - I didn't learn anything.

Simply put, i don't think you were in a position to learn XHTML from someone if you didn't know the specific functions. This is no way your fault, and it's nothing against you but if you didn't know the basic things he was explaining then you shouldn't have done that.

Now, as for VIZ. I feel he should have taken a downpayment to ensure his efforts went paid for, but if the code was invalid and he refused to continue / explain for the quoted price then the previously given code is useless thus Julek, you have nothing to pay for.

Originally Posted by Jeff Andersen Simply put, i don't think you were in a position to learn XHTML from someone if you didn't know the specific functions. This is no way your fault, and it's nothing against you but if you didn't know the basic things he was explaining then you shouldn't have done that. Now, as for VIZ. I feel he should have taken a downpayment to ensure his efforts went paid for, but if the code was invalid and he refused to continue / explain for the quoted price then the previously given code is useless thus Julek, you have nothing to pay for.

I know some basics of xhtml, only from a Sitepoint book I've just recently purchased. I plan on learning to code the layout, but I agree with your last statement.

Kirki, this may be a good thing to do.. Once he gets back online I'll consider this.

Instead of paying him to teach you don't you think it would be much wiser to go and buy a CSS book that would teach you loads more?

To be honest, i think you should pay him at least for the hour he spent with you, not 25 dollars maybe? But he spent one hour. He could've worked on something esle.

Originally Posted by Kirki To be honest, i think you should pay him at least for the hour he spent with you, not 25 dollars maybe? But he spent one hour. He could've worked on something esle.

Its 10 times easier from a willing friend imo. But I like books for when your bored and need something to learn. But I knew VIZ Treated his clients like crap, like he treated me. Julek got what he paid for...0.00$...nada...nada 3...he got nothing out of 0.00$

Originally Posted by Garrett Its 10 times easier from a willing friend imo. But I like books for when your bored and need something to learn. But I knew VIZ Treated his clients like crap, like he treated me. Julek got what he paid for...0.00$...nada...nada 3...he got nothing out of 0.00$

Since when did I not like Julek?

Since when have I treated a client like crap? I never assulted Julek once, simply stated that I had spent more time than agreed. I treated you "like crap" after you got me to buy you a domain and then you stopped developing it and didn't keep your side of the bargain.

Also how many return clients have you had, surely that is the sign of you being a good worker. I have had 4 projects from 1 client, 2 from another (soon to be 3) and I have also been referred 2 jobs. All that with treating clients like crap, I must be amazing then.

Julek did actually get something, I'm posting up the conversation in a mintue, atm my hosting is down.

Originally Posted by Kirki To be honest, i think you should pay him at least for the hour he spent with you, not 25 dollars maybe? But he spent one hour. He could've worked on something esle.

I offered $15 to save TF from all of this.

Bare in mind that when my hosting is back up I'm posting the conversation, highlighted him asking for code snippets and I would also like to see your timing of 15minutes.

I'd wouldn't pay him anything, he showed by getting the code wrong he obviously hasn't got the amount of knowledge required to teach you. I'd refuse to pay him until he's gone over and explained everything, if he doesn't and you still pay him it's a stupid decision on your behalf.

Originally Posted by cpr I'd wouldn't pay him anything, he showed by getting the code wrong he obviously hasn't got the amount of knowledge required to teach you. I'd refuse to pay him until he's gone over and explained everything, if he doesn't and you still pay him it's a stupid decision on your behalf.

Right... I explained all the code he wanted explained (when he came to me he had done some of the work.