Elance.com and Freelancer.com

Hi all,
I'm pretty new to this site, but certainly no newbie to design.
I'd like to post a comment about something that has been rattling me for quite a while..

The fact that places like Freelancer and Elance exist, basically kill the market for those of us who are professional designers trying to run a business. Everyone expects that those of us running a full time company are also going to be charging $10 for a logo.. I mean, let's be honest here - how is that even possible when we need to take a few hours to conceptualize a few ideas, scamp the designs, pitch to the client, and finally design the final concept. I don't want to generalize here, but the guys using these freelance sites, don't put that much effort at all into their designs.

It really annoys me that they are essentially setting the bar low for those of us who are trying to earn a proper living from design work!

Anyone else have anything to add here?

Theres a recent thread on this same issue: http://www.talkfreelance.com/showthread.php?t=77976

Awesome! thanks so much. I'll head on over there now.

I've used job sites to hire other freelancers for skills I didn't have in the past and found as long as I packaged the jobs very well (clear explanations, simple steps, no room for misunderstandings, etc.) the results were usually quite good. More complex jobs didn't fare so well.

I just think that people out there, ie Clients, just dont' know what they are getting themselves into at the best of times when dealing with the Freelance.com or Elance.com sites. Many of the people are not native English, so this leaves a lot of room for misunderstanding. Also, the fact that there is generally a MASSIVE difference in quality of design work that comes from professionals as opposed to some "fly by night" designers.

At the end of the day, it's important for the public to understand that professional designers are trained in designing with a purpose. In other words, we come up with a few concepts before determining which of those concepts it best suited toward the clients business goals. Whereas, these guys that charge $10 for a logo, slap something together real quick and call it a logo - something that has no real concept behind it.

I think that's the thing that gets my goat more than anything else.

Freelancer.com works for me, though. You just have to really be careful with the people you hire. I outsource my writing jobs there and fortunately I hired some people who can really write (Copyscape passed; 100% original content). I am thinking of outsourcing my entry for their contest. I think it's called Expose Our Logo or something. I hope I get lucky with video producers.

You looking for it from a freelancer point of view, but let us look at the outsourcer point of view.

Many businesses wouldn't be running today without them.

CreativeDesigns (and others)

... In addition to Village Genius's suggestion, you'll find other discussions of the same underlying issues if you do a search.

I recognize the benefits to the global market that these sites may provide. But I also see the way the auction sites have and may continue to shift the hiring conversation, especially for new freelancers and for new businesses, from personal recommendations and knowledgable scrutiny of portfolios--that is, from a more personal network and clients who educate themselves before choosing a service provider--toward more free work upfront and lower prices overall. If the global economy begins to rise again, will these sites become less viable, I wonder? I doubt it, and I think this puts a greater burden on you, Mr. or Ms Freelancer-in-a-first-world-economy, to educate your clients, or to otherwise define your market in ways that doesn't include jobs you can't afford to take.

Another issue that concerns me these days is the opportunities for fraud or security breaches created at or by the auction sites.

When you decide to leave one of these sites there is no mechanism to ensure that all the personal information you're required to upload has been removed. My understanding is that once you register you remain one of the "thousands of superior freelancers" forever. I have never been successful in finding out who has access to the information. I'm just waiting for one of these sites to admit to a security breach.

Ultimately, I find a sinking tide lowers all boats.

It is the well said, but it income source for many people who does work at home.