Tables vs Tableless layouts?

that's why you design it to work without tables . . .

Derek I would love to see some of the sites you have coded if possible. I have to see to believe that a complex design can be coded with just a few divs. Don't take this the wrong way, it would just be interesting to see what sites you code are like so I can see if they are what you make them out to be and if they are that outstanding in comparison to others.

By the way many designers don't actually code allthough I think it is a good idea for them to at least learn some basic coding so they can be aware of this when they design a layout. In most cases coders have to make do with what they get from the designers and some times if designers try and desing to make coding easy the actual layout loses its effectiveness.

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/tables-vs-css

This says everything, pretty much.

Okay guys, when I get home I'm going to upload a site I coded that I would say is relatively complex. It is entirely layed out with div's and is styled by CSS. I'll post the link once I have it online this afternoon. Just to show that complex sites can be done with CSS.

Not sure if what I was saying made full sense but I totally agree with you kiswa. You can design any layout no matter how complex it is with css. In most cases it will still be easyier with css then with tables. A project recently posted in these forums I coded was SuccessfulHosting.com. Whilst Derek thinks the coding was not that great (remember I did the main coding for it a year ago when I was learning xhtml and css and alot was by trial and error because there was no where near the resources there is now), it is an example of a complex site being coded with css. There were problems I came accross with getting the site to work so that if the content was very long then the navigation extended and vice versa. Once you have came accross any problems like this once it becomes very easy the next time. Initially coding complex css layouts will be harder then tables and take more time but in the long run I think you will save time with css.

Everyone, please take a look at my article. I think it is relevant to this discussion.

By the way, the time frame for that example site would be about 2pm Central time. If anyone was wondering when I'll edit to have a link!

Ah, thanks for that.

I hardly use Semantic Markup anymore, especially for listing. I'll make a new start.

once the dns kicks in and my domain starts working, i'll throw you some links travis. might be up by tomarrow morning.

Okay guys, take a look at this example of a complex layout styled with CSS. The design was done by another freelancer I work with, I did all coding.

I decided not to edit my previous post so people would more easily know that I had posted!

EDIT: By the way, clicking on the NEWS link will take you to the example of a subpage. Also, feel free to check it out in multiple browsers.

One last thing; notice the fact that a table is used *gasp*. Of course, it's used for tabular data so....

Cool indeed, but my validator detects 9 warnings.

Not important though.