Today's Posts Follow Us On Twitter! TFL Members on Twitter  
Forum search: Advanced Search  
Navigation
Marketplace
  Members Login:
Lost password?
  Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 24,253
Total Threads: 80,789
Total Posts: 566,444
There are 106 users currently browsing (tf).
 
  Our Partners:
 
  TalkFreelance     Business and Website Management     Contracts, Business and Legal Help :

Question about Proposal and Terms and Conditions-AIGA Agreement

Thread title: Question about Proposal and Terms and Conditions-AIGA Agreement
Reply    
    Thread tools Search this thread Display Modes  
06-23-2012, 11:33 PM
#1
mrje1 is offline mrje1
Status: I'm new around here
Join date: Jun 2012
Location:
Expertise:
Software:
 
Posts: 6
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

mrje1 is on a distinguished road

  Old  Question about Proposal and Terms and Conditions-AIGA Agreement

Hello Everyone,

I have a question about the AIGA Standard Agreement or even in any contract proposal. I am confused about where to put the Terms and Conditions. Does the Terms and Conditions reside in the proposal itself or do I have it separate from the proposal. They say in the instructions to attach it, but I don't know if they mean inside the proposal or a separate document that you attach afterwards. Also, the same thing with the Schedule A, where do you think I should place that?

Does anyone number their proposals? If so, how do you go about with a numbering system?

In the Modification/Wavier section of the AIGA Terms and Conditions where it says that the agreement can be modified by the parties. Does that mean that the client can modify the agreement if they wanted to? If so, I thought about taking that out because I donít want a client to modify my agreement, unless I agree with it.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

06-24-2012, 12:54 PM
#2
Lowengard is offline Lowengard
Status: Member
Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New York City
Expertise: all editorial, bsns consulting
Software: zotero
 
Posts: 238
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

Lowengard is an unknown quantity at this point

  Old

mrje1

I am not intimately familiar with the AIGA agreement, though I do frequently lead online sessions about reading and writing contracts for independent professionals. So my experience with contract templates for a variety of practices serves as the basis of my response.

I assume by AIGA Standard Agreement, you mean the one found here: http://www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/.

I thought the accompanying information did a pretty good job of explaining their approach which is, basically, this is what you need in a contract, format it in a way that makes you comfortable.

If you're submitting a proposal to a client and you expect them to sign off on the proposal without a separate LOA or contract, then there is some logic to making your proposal (what you'll do) as the focus of your presentation with the terms and conditions, pluse any appendices (Schedules or Exhibits) as what are known in hard copy versions as "attachments."

So, you might write your proposal and place the signature lines at the end of that part. If you do this, make sure the body of your proposal refers to the existence of the terms and conditions and any other attachments. Best would be to have a place for the client to initial anything that come "after" the signature--in fact, if you offer any choice in the proposal, you should include a place for both your initials there, too. You want to do this so that your client can't t later argue that s/he didn't see the information and they are therefore invalid.

You should give the client an opportunity to modify the agreement, because it should be the agreement you both believe you can abide by. A good client will discuss with you any changes s/he might want before they sign, but sometimes this just doesn't happen. This is why you should not send a signed proposal to a client: have them sign first and then return the document to you. You review to make sure that nothing has been changed and all the required signatures and initials are there, then sign/initial yourself and return a copy to the client.

Alternately, and many lawyers will do this, you could write a letter of agreement that focuses on the terms and conditions, and attach the proposal to it.

Or, and this is what I tend to do, write a letter of agreement that includes both scope (what you'll do) and terms under which you and your client agree to be associated.

Now, for numbering. If you generate a lot of files and emails in your projects, and especially if many of them have the same name (Proposal, letter of agreement, interim report, invoice, invoice reminder, etc). You may find it useful to devise a shorthand system that will keep work organized and help you quickly figure out what you need to know or do. You might then want to include the identifier on your correspondence, so that the client can refer to the same number.

The most important thing about a numbering system is that you find it logical and easy to use. What works best will be a balance of the accounting systems you use, plus the frequency of client-work. I know some people who number sequentially within every calendar or fiscal year, based on proposal. So, the first call you get in 2012 is numbered 2012-001, the second 2012-002 etc. You might then add to this an indication of what the document might be e.g., 2012-001.pr might be that proposal, 2012-001.loa might be the letter of agreement for that project, if you have one 2012-001.ir1 be the first interim report, and so forth.

Because I have clients who pop in and out of my life over years--decades even--I use a system of
[CENTER]AAA-12-01.typ/CENTER]

that is 3 letters that indicate the client, two digits for year, and the sequence within the year. This makes it possible for me to quickly identify everything I've done for Acme Art Advisors to see how I presented work in 1997, whether they paid promptly or I had to invoke a service charge, and more.

I can then also integrate this with my notes about client referrals etc.


<sigh> there's more, of course but this is already TMI, I think.

06-24-2012, 05:11 PM
#3
NewEra is offline NewEra
Status: Sin Binner
Join date: Sep 2005
Location: NewEra Dreams
Expertise:
Software:
 
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

NewEra is on a distinguished road

  Old

here is a great and helpful article i'm sure it will help http://www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/

Reply With Quote
06-26-2012, 03:18 AM
#4
mrje1 is offline mrje1
Status: I'm new around here
Join date: Jun 2012
Location:
Expertise:
Software:
 
Posts: 6
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

mrje1 is on a distinguished road

  Old

Originally Posted by Lowengard View Post
mrje1

I am not intimately familiar with the AIGA agreement, though I do frequently lead online sessions about reading and writing contracts for independent professionals. So my experience with contract templates for a variety of practices serves as the basis of my response.

I assume by AIGA Standard Agreement, you mean the one found here: http://www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/.

I thought the accompanying information did a pretty good job of explaining their approach which is, basically, this is what you need in a contract, format it in a way that makes you comfortable.

If you're submitting a proposal to a client and you expect them to sign off on the proposal without a separate LOA or contract, then there is some logic to making your proposal (what you'll do) as the focus of your presentation with the terms and conditions, pluse any appendices (Schedules or Exhibits) as what are known in hard copy versions as "attachments."

So, you might write your proposal and place the signature lines at the end of that part. If you do this, make sure the body of your proposal refers to the existence of the terms and conditions and any other attachments. Best would be to have a place for the client to initial anything that come "after" the signature--in fact, if you offer any choice in the proposal, you should include a place for both your initials there, too. You want to do this so that your client can't t later argue that s/he didn't see the information and they are therefore invalid.

You should give the client an opportunity to modify the agreement, because it should be the agreement you both believe you can abide by. A good client will discuss with you any changes s/he might want before they sign, but sometimes this just doesn't happen. This is why you should not send a signed proposal to a client: have them sign first and then return the document to you. You review to make sure that nothing has been changed and all the required signatures and initials are there, then sign/initial yourself and return a copy to the client.

Alternately, and many lawyers will do this, you could write a letter of agreement that focuses on the terms and conditions, and attach the proposal to it.

Or, and this is what I tend to do, write a letter of agreement that includes both scope (what you'll do) and terms under which you and your client agree to be associated.

Now, for numbering. If you generate a lot of files and emails in your projects, and especially if many of them have the same name (Proposal, letter of agreement, interim report, invoice, invoice reminder, etc). You may find it useful to devise a shorthand system that will keep work organized and help you quickly figure out what you need to know or do. You might then want to include the identifier on your correspondence, so that the client can refer to the same number.

The most important thing about a numbering system is that you find it logical and easy to use. What works best will be a balance of the accounting systems you use, plus the frequency of client-work. I know some people who number sequentially within every calendar or fiscal year, based on proposal. So, the first call you get in 2012 is numbered 2012-001, the second 2012-002 etc. You might then add to this an indication of what the document might be e.g., 2012-001.pr might be that proposal, 2012-001.loa might be the letter of agreement for that project, if you have one 2012-001.ir1 be the first interim report, and so forth.

Because I have clients who pop in and out of my life over years--decades even--I use a system of
[CENTER]AAA-12-01.typ/CENTER]

that is 3 letters that indicate the client, two digits for year, and the sequence within the year. This makes it possible for me to quickly identify everything I've done for Acme Art Advisors to see how I presented work in 1997, whether they paid promptly or I had to invoke a service charge, and more.

I can then also integrate this with my notes about client referrals etc.


<sigh> there's more, of course but this is already TMI, I think.
Thank you very much for the great advice. That is correct, it is the Standard Agreement. I ended up making my proposal and adding the terms and conditioins at the end with the signature lines. I will take your advice and hold off on signing it. Thank you for clarifying the numbering system. I feel much comfortable in my understanding now.

How many pages is usually your proposals?

Thank you very much again.

Reply With Quote
06-26-2012, 03:22 AM
#5
mrje1 is offline mrje1
Status: I'm new around here
Join date: Jun 2012
Location:
Expertise:
Software:
 
Posts: 6
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

mrje1 is on a distinguished road

  Old

Originally Posted by NewEra View Post
here is a great and helpful article i'm sure it will help http://www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/
Thank you, but this where I got the Agreement. There is somethings that I didn't understand in their explanations. I just can't find any other help with this Agreement, unless I go to the forums. They charge an arm and a leg for membership and can't contact them with out an I.D.

Reply With Quote
06-26-2012, 10:25 AM
#6
Lowengard is offline Lowengard
Status: Member
Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New York City
Expertise: all editorial, bsns consulting
Software: zotero
 
Posts: 238
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

Lowengard is an unknown quantity at this point

  Old

Originally Posted by mrje1 View Post
How many pages is usually your proposals?
Depends on the job and the client. I think the longest one I've written was 15 or 20 pages. (that one was full of "if. . .then"s and opportunities for the client to choose. We needed to maintain the fiction that the client was making all the decisions, there. ;^)) Most are about 8 including terms and conditions.

I used to use something that looked like an RFW or job order: 1 page, spaces for all the essentials on the front, all terms and conditions in about 8 point squeezed onto the back (with place for client's initials): I'd attach that as a cover page to the proposal. I decided a while ago it made me look sleazy (I'm provide contract research and editorial services plus business advisement for independents) so I stopped. The branding thing. But if you're a designer, it might work differently. Making it look like this is standard business and you're not suspicious of, or out to persecute your client can go a long way toward calming fears about All this legalese.

At some point, it's a good idea to take the draft you've conjured and discuss it with someone who is an expert in contract law where you live. There may be quirks of language and the commercial code that you need to work around. For example, in some states (I believe) if you describe your initiation payment, or the down payment on the work on signing the contract as a "deposit," the client can ask for it back if you don't complete the contract for some reason. With interest.

06-27-2012, 01:07 PM
#7
mrje1 is offline mrje1
Status: I'm new around here
Join date: Jun 2012
Location:
Expertise:
Software:
 
Posts: 6
iTrader: 0 / 0%
 

mrje1 is on a distinguished road

  Old

Originally Posted by Lowengard View Post
Depends on the job and the client. I think the longest one I've written was 15 or 20 pages. (that one was full of "if. . .then"s and opportunities for the client to choose. We needed to maintain the fiction that the client was making all the decisions, there. ;^)) Most are about 8 including terms and conditions.

I used to use something that looked like an RFW or job order: 1 page, spaces for all the essentials on the front, all terms and conditions in about 8 point squeezed onto the back (with place for client's initials): I'd attach that as a cover page to the proposal. I decided a while ago it made me look sleazy (I'm provide contract research and editorial services plus business advisement for independents) so I stopped. The branding thing. But if you're a designer, it might work differently. Making it look like this is standard business and you're not suspicious of, or out to persecute your client can go a long way toward calming fears about All this legalese.

At some point, it's a good idea to take the draft you've conjured and discuss it with someone who is an expert in contract law where you live. There may be quirks of language and the commercial code that you need to work around. For example, in some states (I believe) if you describe your initiation payment, or the down payment on the work on signing the contract as a "deposit," the client can ask for it back if you don't complete the contract for some reason. With interest.
Thank you again for your input. So far mine that I made is 19 pages. I have a cover, then introduction letter, table of contents, copyright statement, project overview, scope of work, my design phases, fees and payment overview, milestones, deliverables and fee schedule, about me page, and then the terms and conditions.

What do you think of the order and titles of each page? Is this a correct order?

I have a question about refunds. What do you recommend or your approach to handling refunds when that comes about?

I would like to see a expert in contract law, but isn't it expensive to see one? How much on average does a lawyer cost?

When it comes to payments, I did not put the lingo as a deposit. I am a Web Designer and so far I set it up in three installment payment plan that are paid after each phase. At this point I would never offer as a deposit.

Thank you again for your awesome input. Looking forward to your answers.

Reply With Quote
Reply    


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

  Posting Rules  
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump:
 
  Contains New Posts Forum Contains New Posts   Contains No New Posts Forum Contains No New Posts   A Closed Forum Forum is Closed