Am i in the wrong?

Originally Posted by amf Wow, so much wrong in so little time. 1. You priced the site at $80. That should have been the deal and YOU should have stuck to it. The extra labor should have been priced separately. 2. Because you didn't price your labor separately, it was worth the difference between the site price and the site price + labor price, which is to say: NOTHING. You devalued yourself. No one else did that. 3. Because your labor was worth nothing to begin with, you can't be upset that he wants his money back on the site if he didn't get the site. You might as well get annoyed at yourself and not the guy. You set the price of your labor by giving it away in the first place. All that said: was the $40 given with an understanding that it was a non-refundable deposit? If no expectation was given either way, you should error on the side of angels and give him his money back. All you are out then is your time and labor, which you already valued at $0.

The labouring was included in the $80.

The site was $40 before hand, we than came to a agreement of $80, including the labouring.

Originally Posted by amf Wow, so much wrong in so little time. 1. You priced the site at $80. That should have been the deal and YOU should have stuck to it. The extra labor should have been priced separately. 2. Because you didn't price your labor separately, it was worth the difference between the site price and the site price + labor price, which is to say: NOTHING. You devalued yourself. No one else did that. 3. Because your labor was worth nothing to begin with, you can't be upset that he wants his money back on the site if he didn't get the site. You might as well get annoyed at yourself and not the guy. You set the price of your labor by giving it away in the first place. All that said: was the $40 given with an understanding that it was a non-refundable deposit? If no expectation was given either way, you should error on the side of angels and give him his money back. All you are out then is your time and labor, which you already valued at $0.

RED: Agree
BLUE: Disagree. He already did some changes here and there and for that 'hard work', he should keep the $40.

PS. I'm curious to know the reason why he decided not to buy in the end.

Originally Posted by Craddock The labouring was included in the $80. The site was $40 before hand, we than came to a agreement of $80, including the labouring.

Next time, charge him more.

Why didn't you send him the site?

lol, did you bother to read the actual thread!?..

Originally Posted by Craddock The next day, he says he dont want it.

Originally Posted by Craddock The labouring was included in the $80. The site was $40 before hand, we than came to a agreement of $80, including the labouring.

That's subtly different than your original post and definitely a critical piece of information.

Given that you did the work requested, unless he explicitly had trouble with labor that wasn't satisfactory, I think you can do one of three things:

1. Keep the money for the labor assuming he didn't pay for the site. Customer is out everything.

2. Keep the money for the site, send him the site anyway as it originally stood before you did the labor. Customer gets what he didn't want, but at least he got his $40-worth.

3. Send him the money, eat the labor, re-sell the site for more money now that it has all that extra work.

I agree with the earlier comment that you need to charge more for your labor, but that's really beside the point at this moment.

Personally, if the changes he requested were good ones that will help sell it later, go with #3 and sleep better knowing you did a good thing even if the customer is a shmuck. But that's me. Freelancing is my business and my reputation is very important and I'd still worry if I screwed a shmuck customer. Your mileage may vary.

You cant just back out of something, giving a deposit has an implied understanding that there is no going back, you are decided. Giving a deposit is there for security, so he cant just walk away on you, whats the point if you refund it to anything?

AMF, you clearly have no understanding of how a payment structure works. Youve never designed/programmed for someone with a deposit, have you? All of your solutions require the programmer to get burned and the client to get everything, even though hes the one who went back on the agreement.

Originally Posted by amf 2. Keep the money for the site, send him the site anyway as it originally stood before you did the labor. Customer gets what he didn't want, but at least he got his $40-worth.

What i load of rubbish. You don't make sense..

The sites worth $80, Conrad is selling it for $80

Why should conrad hand over a 'valued at $80' website, when he's only received $40?..

Originally Posted by adiboy PS. I'm curious to know the reason why he decided not to buy in the end.

Funding problems.

Originally Posted by adiboy Next time, charge him more.

I was happy with the price.

Originally Posted by Charllie lol, did you bother to read the actual thread!?..

Don't think he did.

Originally Posted by Charllie What i load of rubbish. You don't make sense.. The sites worth $80, Conrad is selling it for $80 Why should conrad hand over a 'valued at $80' website, when he's only received $40?..

My name is Josh

Originally Posted by Village Idiot You cant just back out of something, giving a deposit has an implied understanding that there is no going back, you are decided. Giving a deposit is there for security, so he cant just walk away on you, whats the point if you refund it to anything? AMF, you clearly have no understanding of how a payment structure works. Youve never designed/programmed for someone with a deposit, have you? All of your solutions require the programmer to get burned and the client to get everything, even though hes the one who went back on the agreement.

Sigh. I've been doing freelance work AS A BUSINESS for 17 years. Lots of time in there to make my mistakes. I have lots of happy customers. Never had to give a refund either.

Interestingly, I've worked with a number of graphic artists as well and NOT ONE has ever asked me for a deposit for their work. Beside the point, and likely not a valid data point to draw any real conclusions.

The point of refunding -- at least for me -- is that I truly believe the customer is ALWAYS supposed to be happy. Customer is currently out $40. No one is currently happy. Why do something if it makes no one happy? Is keeping the $40 really going to make Craddock happier?

For an amount so small, I'd just give him back the money and to heck with it and then try to get it back on the next person I sold it to. My time is worth more than the hassle he's currently going through.

Originally Posted by Charlie Why should conrad hand over a 'valued at $80' website, when he's only received $40?..

Re-read Craddock's later post. The customer and he agreed that the site was worth $40 and the work was worth $40. My #2 item says give him the ORIGINAL site (without the extra work) for the $40 and call it even. I didn't recommend that, though.