Originally Posted by derek lapp sure you could: x = 8 does x = 5 + 3 or 4*2, maybe 16 / 2, 9 - 1, 4 - -4, etc? one isn't right over the other just because it uses a different method. one is probably better, IE 5+3 over 4 - -4, because it's cleaner and more straight forward, but 4 - -4 isn't wrong, it still equals 8, it's just not as good of a solution.

That is to get to the same thing, tables vs. divs have different outcomes, doesn't apply. Also, x=8 is the easier to read, therefore better.

Originally Posted by derek lapp example 2: if someone makes a logo in photoshop is it a bad design just because it's raster? it's not very functional, but that doesn't effect the aesthetics.

If it takes longer to load, its worse.

Originally Posted by derek lapp sometimes people take this table thing too far. if you can use divs, good, do it. but the internet doesn't break when someone uses a table. it just makes you better than 1 more person.

The road doesn't break with your muffler, but you would probably agree a car with a muffler is better then one without.

Originally Posted by derek lapp edit: i'm saying this more to people who say "table = bad coder". i've seen equally bad work come from people using divs. just using divs over a table doesn't make you any better of a coder - especially if you don't even understand why you're doing it.

There is no such thing as a good programmer who doesn't know why he is doing what he is doing.

Originally Posted by derek lapp also, rules can be broken. if it takes 2 steps to do it via table and 14 to hack up some workaround with divs, is it really better recreating the wheel? funny how some coders will do almost anything to recreate the wheel in order to be table free, then they complain about how designers are bad for trying to recreate the wheel too much when they try to break out of boring design expectations.

There may be some instances where tables are better, but that is on a by instance basis, you cant use that as a universal justification. Edit: Especially when talking about an entire layout being based off of a table.

Originally Posted by derek lapp another edit: is someone a bad driver because they have an automatic transmission instead of a standard? i just think someone people take it too seriously at times.

Automatic and manual transmission make no difference on the drive unless the driver is overall inexperienced. Nothing, and I mean nothing can serve as a replacement for genuine experience. Edit: I would rather an experienced coder who uses tables then an inexperienced coder who uses divs.